Part I
Wayne Morris:I am speaking with Kathleen Sullivan from Tennessee, a survivor of mind control. Thanks very much for joining us on this radio series, Kathleen.
Kathleen Sullivan:Thanks for inviting me.
Wayne Morris:How did you become aware that you were being used, or under the influence of, mind control?
Kathleen Sullivan:I first started realizing that I did not have a lot of memories from my childhood and from my adult years, and I did not have an awareness of most of my emotions back in the summer of 1989 when I went to a place called Crossroads in Chatanooga. It was a co-dependency treatment program that I entered because my daughter had been arrested for some serious charges. They wanted me to get some extra help because they figured it was probably family/generational and I started remembering that I had been sexually abused by my father at home, as had several other siblings, and I went home and started telling the authorities and was preparing to testify against him. I started realizing that he was not the man I thought he was ... that I had a real fantasy about who he was as my father. When that started to break, I started to have a lot of abreactions ... physical memories paired with the emotional memories of having been tortured by him at home. And also used in voyeurism type sexual acts with him as a child.
He was suicided in January, 1990. I was made to watch. When that happened, I totally shut down inside and became very robotic, very out of touch with my emotions, and I entered a hospital in Atlanta in a treatment program there. They called it "Intensive Experiential Track" which was a more legal name as far as insurance companies go for co-dependency treatment again. I started having more memories of other types of trauma I had been there. Got out of that, and then I started having ritual abuse memories. I am finding that this is usually a normal process. You will remember the sexual abuse first, then the ritual abuse, then the other stuff finally comes up.
I went in another hospital in the summer of 1991 out in Dallas and that's where I finally began to accept what I was beginning to remember ... that I had been programmed by the U.S. government to be used to be an assassin, as well as to do some other jobs for them. It was a very difficult time for me because I was absolutely terrified that as I remembered I was going to be killed. I was having a problem in the hospital with being homicidal towards the people there ... nurses and staff. It was a real interesting couple of months for all of us I think. I started learning that I had many many alter personalities and fragments of my original personality. Each one had a name, or a code number, or a code name. I have been working at it ever since. It has been a real interesting experience so far.
Wayne Morris:Did something trigger the memories initially, did they start coming before your father had died?
Kathleen Sullivan:Yeah they did. I think that being in Crossroads, where I was physically safe, probably for the first time in my life. At that place I was not even allowed to accept phone calls or cards from relatives. When they do that kind of codependency treatment they want the patients to focus solely on their own stuff inside, and not be taken away mentally or emotionally from the recovery work they were doing. It was an emotionally important month for me there. Nobody put it in my head, in fact, I kept telling the staff there that my dad was a wonderful man, that he was like Norman Rockwell, if you can imagine one of those pictures. They kept asking, "why are you so shut down emotionally?" We had explored that maybe it was alcoholism in my family - no. I had no memory of sexual abuse. I was trying to figure out what was causing this in me. One time I went to see a Batman movie on a pass from the hospital, with a group from the unit. That movie, for some reason, started it. I came back to the unit and I was hysterical, I could not stop crying, I had a major headache which I also learned since then meant that alter personalities were starting to come out.
I had this need inside to run away and hide where no one could find me. It was a real tough time, but I was starting to open up there. I had also had a falling-out with my father previous to that, which was a first for me. My daughter had been arrested, and I think he was trying to cover his tracks to make it look like she was crazy or whatever ... I was also breaking his control of me at the same time. By being willing to testify against him, that was breaking his control even further. When he was killed, that broke it the rest of the way.
Wayne Morris:When you were testifying against your father, this was strictly for the sexual abuse?
Kathleen Sullivan:Right. He had three children from his second marriage and one of them came forward. We had never talked about that, even now. What I had remembered independently about Dad doing to me and my other siblings in a bathroom when I was a child was identical to what Dad did to this half sibling and a younger half sibling about 30 years later. It was pretty amazing how he was still using the same techniques. That was the beginning of breaking free and remembering for me. Before he died, I was having flashbacks twenty four hours a day it seemed, during my dreams and during my waking state. Fortunately I had two therapists working with me who taught me to journal everything. I have been journalling ever since, and it has been a big help.
Wayne Morris:When you were receiving these memories, how did they come back? In different senses, or how did your memories come back to you?
Kathleen Sullivan:A lot of times I might hear a sound that wasn't in the room and I recognized that because it wasn't in the room, that it was a sound memory starting to come up, or that part of a memory. Sometimes I would hear somebody talking to me ... my father or the voice of another person that a lot of times I could recognize from my childhood. Sometimes it would be a certain smell. Or I would be eating and all of a sudden the food looked extremely unappetizing. I had a lot of physical memories of being raped when nothing was happening physically at the current time, it was all body memory. I had a lot of visual memory and then I started having some recurring dreams. When I started writing them, and allowed myself to explore that part of what was coming up in my mind ... I would spend hours and hours ... sometimes half a day just sitting there and writing them up, and reliving them as I wrote, and believe me, that was not fun either. Even now, I can look back on a lot of that stuff, and go "wow" "yeah, this really did happen". It's been amazing.
Wayne Morris:What you are saying is that your father basically was carrying out trauma-based conditioning on you ... at what point did you become aware that this was being done for the purpose of mind control?
Kathleen Sullivan:That again was in the summer of 1991. It wasn't until I remembered the government connection and remembered that I had been used as an assassin. I am fortunate on this in a way, because the memories came up and alter personalities came out before I was able to find information about these types of activities. I was feeling crazy when that stuff came out. I wanted to believe that I had made it all up, but I thought "omigosh if I made it all up", even subconsciously, then I am really crazy. It was a very difficult time. I went back and forth in denial a lot. When the information kept coming up, and the alter personalities kept coming out very consistently, I realized I couldn't keep denying it. If something that serious had been done to me and I had been used to do it, then I was in danger presently and the more I could accept this stuff, and accept the alter personalities and fuse with them, the better I would be aware of what was going on around me now.
Wayne Morris:How did you go about verifying your memories at the time you started remembering government involvement, and being used?
Kathleen Sullivan:It was very hard. What I tried to do was find information where this had been done to people before. At the time the information was extremely limited. I just came across John Marks' Manchurian Candidate - that helped a little bit. I was able to get hold of a xerox copy of Walter Bowart's original [Operation] Mind Control and there was a chapter in there about a woman - I believe her code name was Candy [Candy Jones] - it showed how she had been used to do a lot of the same things, even at a place I remembered - it was called The Farm. It may have been at Camp Peary. I have not bothered trying to go there to identify it visually. A lot of the same techniques I had been remembering she had mentioned being used on her. One of the things she mentioned was cyanide with lipstick. I had been remembering using a little container of vaseline with a biochemical substance on it and then poking or scratching someone with a pin with it. There were enough similarities that I started to feel sane.
At the time I also was very desperate. I started reading a book called The Man Who Knew Too Much by Richard Russell, and I wrote to him, and just shared a little bit of my story. He did acknowledge that from his understanding, this stuff was still going on, and "hang in there". So I did a lot of hanging in there ... Back in 1991 I had remembered five main systems of programming that had been used on me. It came out totally spontaneously. A psychiatrist at the hospital in Dallas simply asked each of the patients in the group, "...we want you write down maps of your system" and I just sat down, and it just came out on paper -- Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta and Omicron. No one bothered to explain what all that was. I didn't know any other patients there at the time who wrote that specific information down. I went ahead and explored what this meant in alter states, and a lot of it was pure visualization that had been externally put in my mind through hypnosis and through other means. Not understanding what any of this meant, except for what little I could remember at the time, I just kept journalling and documenting it as best as I could.
Back in 1993 I had written to Daniel Ryder who wrote Breaking the Circle of Satanic Abuse and he had mentioned something in there about government mind control, so I wrote him a letter and said "I have these systems of programming and it looks like I have been used as an assassin and some other things". I just needed to know that other people had heard of this so I could feel relatively sane.
Wayne Morris:When you say "systems of programming", what do you mean by that, and maybe you could explain what each of these are?
Kathleen Sullivan:(Laughs) I am not claiming that I understand all of this myself ... I think only a programmer can really understand it all. What they did ... and I might add that my father was my primary programmer from my childhood on. He was a sociopath because of some horrible things he went through in his own childhood that I have found out about ... he had no conscience at all about anything he did. He was also a pedophile who preferred sex with children. I got hit on that pretty hard too. He was an engineer for AT&T, formerly Western Electric and he was an absolute genius in what he did for them. He worked a lot with blueprints, he was very scientifically minded, and I think that probably was his self esteem right there. He loved puzzles, games, and he loved seeing how many alter states he could create in one individual. He used me and he told me a number of times that he was God to me ... and while I really believed it ... and he told me I was his guinea pig and I really believe that ... and that I was his prototype because as many as he could create in me successfully, and document each part of me that he broke off and gave a code name to ... that would make him look even better to the CIA who he was working for.
Wayne Morris:How would he go about creating ...
Kathleen Sullivan:There were a number of ways that he did it. He was a true sadist. He even wrote a paper once on Marquis de Sade and I found it several years after he died, and I went "uh, huh. this figures". I guess because of the pain that he had inside that he hadn't dealt with ... and it was extreme. I could see it sometimes, he would dissociate. He liked to inflict pain on others and he would sometimes use electrical wires because he was an electrical and chemical engineer. I still have a problem most of all with electricity. I cannot stand being near bare wires, it drives me nuts. Even if the electricity is turned off, you can't convince me it is turned off. He used sleep deprivation, held food back. Used rituals extensively. He headed up a small covert satanic cult in Reading, Pennsylvania. A small group but they brought a lot of kids in for rituals and orgies ... that right there did serious stuff to my head. I was made to participate in ritual sacrifices from the time I was four years old. I am realizing, and I think it is important for people to realize that a lot of the stuff may not just be ritual abuse. It may actually be training and conditioning for some people to be used later on for ops. Later on the implements that were used in those ritual sacrifices I was able to use in assassinations with absolutely no problem whatsoever. The things I saw in the rituals ... anyone working in an emergency room will know what I am talking about ... also helped me to desensitize later on when I was involved in assassinations. The desensitization I think is very important. But what he did was kept a real close eye on me, as much as he could, either in the rituals or at home where he was doing a lot of the torture to me. What he did was, he would use the main part of me that was known as Kathy at the time be out and present consciously and in control of the body, then he would traumatize that main part of me, the original part of me, so that part simply could not bear the pain or the horror any more. That part would simply go to sleep ... I guess that would be self hypnosis, and would totally black out amnesically. Then he would do something else to me to where I had to come back but I couldn't bear it as Kathy. He would split off a part and then he would give that part a name and just really mess with each part's head, if that makes sense ... it's really all one head. So what did was when parts of me split off and had no memory of the Kathy part of me ... those other parts were what he called A Clean Slate ... in other words, they had no memory so in other words he could make them believe anything he wanted them to. He called it imprinting because it was whatever beliefs he chose for those parts that's what he would imprint them with -- emotionally and mentally. he did it to a lot of other children. I was not the only one.
One of his specialties was splitting off children's psyches and doing what he called "base programming" which was assigning their names and such and other people would do more specific programming to them later. He chose to do other more specific programming with me as well just to show what he could do.
Wayne Morris:This base programming is a result of being exposed to trauma to cause dissociation?
Kathleen Sullivan:There are many ways it can happen. The Beta system of me ... some people will just have one part that is named Beta ... I need to add that there are a lot of mind control survivors who do not have this particular programming. They have other types of programs because other people were trying other experimental techniques and trying to create other types of alter personalities and programs. My Dad was specializing in this area.
Wayne Morris:Your Dad must have learned these techniques from somewhere. Where do you think he was taught ... or it sounds like also your father was a victim of abuse or perhaps mind control as well.
Kathleen Sullivan:I believe he was. I am going to have be kind of general on some of this because there are some things I am not really safe talking about yet and I will say as much as I can comfortably. On the other side of my family there are some white Russian connections. These are people who are extremely anti-communist. They were involved in some of this in a more primitive way. One of the older male relatives would torture my Dad by applying electricity to the many fillings in his teeth. That person had a great influence on what happened to me, my Dad, my entire family. That person is unfortunately still alive, or I would name him. He seemed to have ... he told me that he had OSS connections and had been with the OSS during WWII. He seemed to have a lot of connections to politicians in D.C. as well, and to another person who I wish I could name, initials HK, who I learned had actually been involved in bringing over a lot of the Nazi criminal scientists from Germany at the end of WWII and later on. My Dad told me that he, my father, had been used as an interpreter with some of the scientists who were brought over by the army and air force back then and OSS which then became CIA. I thought about this, why my Dad became so influenced by those people, if that is true. I finally realized something a couple of weeks ago. My Dad had a strong German background. He was growing up in an era when to be a German was just a filthy thing, because Germans were considered the enemy. His mother would play German radio stations at night, but I can see where he had a very difficult time because he already had low self esteem, severely so. I can see now why he might have gotten emotionally close to some of these people if he did interpret for them. He spent a lot of time at different air force bases in at least a four year period in the air force. Quite a few bases, it was surprising how many.
Later on he spent a lot of time around people who were, some people call them neo-nazis, or aryans ... people who were involved with aryan-type organizations, activism and such. It looks like somebody sort of woke up that part of his sense of having a self-purpose, being important, being special. He became pretty obsessed with satanic belief systems. He and some other men who he was close to called themselves Knights Templar. As far as I know Dad was never in the Masons although most of the other people were pretty high level. Their meaning for Knights Templar was "germanic assassin". As a female, since they were total chauvinists, I was not considered a Knight Assassin, but they would call me a Daughter of Knight Templar. There is something there.
He also went to Albright College which is right outside Reading, Pennsylvania and graduated from there before he started working for Western Electric, and they had a strong German group there too ... he was in German clubs and such. I am not sure where all the influences came from but they were pretty strong and I figure it gave him an identity which he was pretty needy for.
Wayne Morris:As you are probably aware, there is quite a debate in the public about the recovered memories versus the false memories. In your experience, how did you feel that a memory was real or not, and what kind of problems are associated with the memory in terms of trying to figure out exactly what happened to you?
Kathleen Sullivan:For me it was, and still is, very hard work. One of the things I learned very fast as I was remembering was that it looks like every single time, without fail, whenever I completed an op, especially overseas ones which I did for the CIA and another organization as well. When I came back I would be debriefed and immediately what they would start doing what I call "screen memories and scrambles." They can be two different things. Screen memories are where they put an entire separate memory in the mind so that when you start remembering you will hit the screen memory first. It is an actual memory in that it did happen, but not physically. What it usually was for me was they would put me in a room where there was a movie projector or later on they used virtual reality which made it even worse because there was more of a sense of it being real. Sometimes they would drug me, sometimes one of my handlers would sit there talking to me, and narrating and hypnotizing me as I was watching a movie. A lot of times they tried to pick out movies that had some similarities to what I had just experienced. And I am assuming this means they were preparing in advance. Other times they would use horror movies that I had never seen before, they were that bad. We're talking x-rated sometimes. So, I would hit those movie memories and it would be, "what in the heck is this?" - this makes no sense whatsoever. I would feel really crazy, and I would go okay, I remember that there was a man sitting to the right of me, I remember I was sitting in a seat, I was looking up at a screen, "aha, this is a movie" and then I would write down the entire memory (who was near me etc.). from there I could backtrack or I could forward from that point.
Scrambles were more where I would be with a group of people, or with a handler, and they would put me under hypnosis and make me see something out of the whole thing that was real -- they would make me see one thing that absolutely was not real. One friend of mine would see a kangaroo in a guard shack ... obviously it was not a kangaroo. That's the kind of things they would do. They also did what my Dad really liked, because it involved all the tactile sensations which made the false memories seem even more real ... what he called "acted-out" scenarios. That is where they would go ahead and take the victim to a location where they would have people scripted just like they were acting on t.v. or something and make the person think that situation actually happened. Sometimes they would even bring in a well-known Hollywood actor here and there, pay them pretty well. I think some of them are probably blackmailed, and I think some of them are also victims themselves. So when a person would remember that stuff, that also would make them feel real crazy to actually remember absolutely an actor that was on t.v.
The other thing they would do as far as screen memories was a lot of times, after all that was done, and they were transporting me back home ... a lot of times it was through Dobbins Air Force Base ... they would transport me to a place in Cobb County which was where the main cult was that my Dad was connected to near the end, and make me participate in a ritual after everything else. Here I would have to work through a legit ritual memory, then I would have to work through a screen or scramble, then I might be looking to get to the real memory. Fortunately for me, they were pretty predictable but it took me several years to realize what was happening and why the memories were coming up this way.
In that way I do think there is a legitimacy to what people talk about false memories, but I do not think of it as people making it up consciously or subconsciously. I consider it to be externally induced false memories. I was talking to someone the other day and one of the reasons the McMartin case was thrown out was because the kids had mentioned that they were raped by Santa Claus. It was a man dressed up like Santa Claus. They were telling the truth. But the jury I believe found them not credible because of that. Kids in Cobb County have shared that they had been used in bestiality with lions. That one was real. But people could not believe that happened and therefore the kids were considered not credible.
... sometimes they would actually bring in things that are real, that are legit, but it is so beyond what people can comprehend that humans can do to humans ... that they are considered incredible.
Wayne Morris:So do you feel it was purposely done that way to discredit the survivors?
Kathleen Sullivan:Absolutely. And to make them feel insane, and to feel hopeless. If your memories aren't real but they keep coming up, it's enough to make you want to die. It really is a lot of times and that's very scary.
Wayne Morris:Do you feel that some of the memories of the ritual abuse may have been staged in your experience?
Kathleen Sullivan:I wish. Unfortunately I have witnesses, now most of them are children, and they are not about to talk because they are trying to get on with their own lives too. But unfortunately my Dad and this other leader in Cobb County later on were very sadistic. They seemed to enjoy doing what they did, so unfortunately here it was real. I also have communicated with other survivors who, when they sat down and did like I did and kind of looked around in their memory, they were shown films of rituals. So what I am beginning to realize is probably a lot of the real rituals are filmed, and then the films are used on some victims as ritual abuse memories that are mostly films. So I think there are both.
Wayne Morris:So, when you said it was becoming predictable in the sense of -- was there a pattern as to how they had traumatized you in terms of programming?
Kathleen Sullivan:Goodness yes. The other thing that they would do was -- let's just say there were some handlers who didn't feel comfortable working with me because I had Delta programming, which was "kill" programming. I think they got afraid sometimes, so a lot of times they would apply a stun gun to my body. What that does is wipe out about 20 minutes of memory if it's held to the muscle long enough. That would also wipe out part of a transportation memory, or coming out of a building, getting into a vehicle, something like that. That actually was pretty predictable too. I had a police officer in Atlanta look at my arms one time, and I didn't even tell him what I was looking for, and he saw that I had marks all over. I had already seen them, and I figured what they were, but it was kind of still upsetting to hear a verification from an officer.
Wayne Morris:How did that help you, in terms of your recovery, to have that pattern there in terms of your conditioning?
Kathleen Sullivan:It helped me feel sane. And it helped me to realize that these people are not gods ... that they are limited in their creativity ... that they had to go by patterns, I am realizing, because they had to do a lot of the same things in order to keep things smooth, keep it efficient, not waste a whole lot of time. I want to mention one more thing. There is something else that happened. There is a theatre in B.C. that is actually called "Janus". I had received information, although I cannot personally verify it, I have pictures of the theatre too ... that it is CIA owned. If that's true, then that may be one of the theatres I was taken to. The investigator I talked to said it seemed like it was hardly ever used, and yet the taxes were being paid, it's an odd place. There was a team of operatives who would do something code-named CYBERTRON. They would show a movie and they would have us just scream and yell and everything at the characters on the big movie screen. What that did was help our emotions to diffuse, so that when we went back home, we had gotten it all out in the movie theatre, so they did that. Sometimes it was group screen memories that they did -- and it still worked. It was amazing.
Wayne Morris:What kind of covers do you think the perpetrators of mind control have used to cover their tracks?
Kathleen Sullivan:There is one man who used to re-program me in Atlanta. He would actually dress up in female costumes somtimes with a wig, and dresses, and the whole nine yards. I knew a number of men who would actually dress in female outfits, with wigs and such. It was silly how they did that because they didn't look like right and it wasn't too hard to figure, and you would remember the same face and think "I can't believe he did that". People probably thought they were drag queens or something. The other big problem I ran into was that most of these people used aliases, religiously. Very few of them didn't, only the ones who were very high level, very well known, did not. I guess they were hoping that people would never believe that they had been involved in this stuff and it would make them look like a Paula Jones, you know ... "we're just lying to get money" whatever.
Wayne Morris:So, you are talking about public figures?
Kathleen Sullivan:Right. Believe me, I am for Paula Jones. I think they were just banking on, first of all, some of us would die through suicide programming especially, or just give up, or go back to the cult ... I don't think they expected this many of us to be recovering and waking up and getting angry.
Wayne Morris:When you were going through your healing process in your recovery, what resources of therapy were available to you and what did you seek out at that time?
Kathleen Sullivan:It was awfully limited. This is one thing I wish would come back into vogue, although I know some survivors went to co-dependent treatment centres and got re-programmed at them ... some ... There are always going to be places that are kind of scuzzy compared to good ones. But the one I went to was excellent because it had helped me so many times to know that when my body was responding a certain way, now I know what I am feeling, and I know what to do with the energy of those feelings. That is incredibly important because as an assassin, they compartmentalized my rage from my childhood, and I have had tremendous rage come out. I have had to do a lot of anger work, which also is very helpful. But knowing in advance what is coming up in me, helps me to be safer and for those who around me to be a lot safer, because then I know what to do with that emotion. So I think that is the first thing that I wish all survivors could learn, although unfortunately most of them do not.
I went to one hospital (which unfortunately may not have great connections any more) in Denver - not Columbine - and worked with a doctor there who had lost family in concentration camps during WWII. He was aware of the atrocities that humans will do to humans, if they think they can get away with it and if they are very wounded in their own selves. That was very helpful to me because when I talked to that doctor, he did not go in denial. The biggest help I have had is talking to people who do not go in denial about this stuff and who are -- not willing to "believe" -- but understand that things can really get this bad between humans.
That was also where I first found out -- although I kind of knew before and I had been kind of hinting around to people that I thought I had alter personalities -- that's where I got it confirmed. It was a real safe place for me because I was able to let little child alter personalities come out, walking around with a teddy bear in a robe, you know ... that was very important because once child alter personalities come out, they come out the way they went under and I can't expect them to act my physical age and it just does not work. There was one person that I did work with for a year and a half on some de-programming techniques, unfortunately that does not seem to be a helping situation any more, but that did give me some good clues on what to look for inside as far as when memories start coming up. As far as verification, I had to do that work on my own. I have files and files on the different people that I remember that I have been able to identify and get information on ... just tracking their personalities and seeing if it fits what I remember, and I am really delighted when one of them acts out in public the way I remember, because I go, "uh huh, here we go ..."
Wayne Morris:Was that one person the only person you worked with who had knowledge of mind control programming?
Kathleen Sullivan:Unfortunately, yes. Another thing that really has helped me, although I am not active with it anymore, there is a deprogramming group on the internet ... excellent excellent group. They have had their roller coaster times. New people come on and it takes a while sometimes, because people are not exactly taught social graces and they have to learn that. That's part of the recovery process. It has been an outstanding group and not just anyone can be on it, you have to be legit and really be wanting to work at it, but the internet has been real helpful to me because I have been able to write back and forth with other MKULTRA survivors and they have been such a tremendous support, especially in helping me to accept myself. Now I have had a problem with several therapists who were not able to help me with that because they were struggling with all of this. But when you are talking to people who have already been there, they know it's real ... you don't have to deal with that issue with them, and ... like, when I remembered I was used as an assassin, I hated myself for so long, and I was so down on myself, and I thought surely everyone else would hate me too. And they gradually helped me to understand that no, it's not my fault, and that probably saved my life too.
Wayne Morris:Do you think that situation is changing more now, in terms of therapists becoming more aware of mind control and adjusting their therapy techniques accordingly.
Kathleen Sullivan:Absolutely. I do not think there are nearly enough therapists who are willing to work with these types of survivors, and are willing to learn the right techniques which are now available. We really desperately need more therapists who will do this. The few I know of who are aware, and do know how to use the right techniques, and just to listen a lot of times ... without shutting a person down and making them feel like it wasn't real. That alone can throw a person into suicide very quickly. I think it is going to get better, but it's going to take a while, but it's a whole lot better already than it was when I started out. I had literally nobody that understood this stuff starting out, and that was horrible, just horrible. It's one reason why I do go public as much as I do ... I try to get information out to survivors about how to deal with some of this stuff so they won't have to go through the heartaches I did and the tough times I did, as severely. I mean they are still going to have to but not to that extent ...
Wayne Morris:How do you feel that groups like the FMSF affect resources available for survivors of mind control?
Kathleen Sullivan:(Laughs) That's a real sore subject to me. I have no doubt that there are some people connected with the FMSF who mean well, who really do not understand yet what is going on, and who some of their associates are ... even on the Board. I do think it is detrimental, because it seems like all the best therapists, all the ones who are willing to help people self accept especially, are being shot down, one after the other ... either through harassment, lawsuits ... just being dragged over the coals by the media. I think it is vicious, absolutely uncalled for, but again, I am sure there are some people in that organization who really do not know what this is all about. My concern is that several people who are involved strongly with the FMSF -- in fact I just recently heard from an investigator that Jolyon West is joining -- I think, and it's a personal opinion -- I think the main reason these people are joining is because their backs are to the wall -- because some of these people were involved in MK experimentation on children and others, and they are fighting to keep us from being able to testify against them personally. Again, that's my personal opinion, but it is a very strong one. I think if more people understood what the motivations are for some of these groups, they would put some space between themselves and the group.
Wayne Morris:People like Martin Orne and Louis Jolyon-West are well-documented as being involved in MKULTRA and other mind control experimental programs. I would like to talk in a general sense of what other kinds of methods were used to condition you or to reinforce your conditioning. How was electricity used?
Kathleen Sullivan:Electricity is very powerful ... the problem with electricity for me, that and drugs both, and kind of hypnosis in there too ... is that it gets beyond conscious barriers. There were certain things that could be done to me, like torture, regular torture, on a certain part of the body that I could mentally block out and maybe let it hit a part of my brain, but I don't understand the physical way this is all done, I just know this is how I did it. I would protect part of my mind from it influencing the rest of my mind. Electricity hits the brain, and there is no way to protect the brain from it because it's hitting that part of the body as well. There is no defence I know of against electricity, especially electroshock "therapy" -- I hate the word "therapy" connected to that. I know in some cases it is very important -- I have seen people who were so bad in depression that if they had not had ECT, they would have died, for sure. To call it "therapy" for people like us, is absolutely uncalled for. I don't know what you would call it. But electroshock to the head is a very powerful way to break me down in every way.
Stun guns - I was absolutely terrified of electricity because it was extremely painful - but for me - all someone would have to do is hold a stun gun out like they were going to do it - maybe push the button and let the little electrical arc go between the prongs - and I would do anything they said. I was just that terrified.
There were several other ways they did it. They had a choker type thing - I don't know what you would call it - but it was around my neck - they had a little box - I guess it was battery operated and remote controlled, and they could shock my throat. In fact I had to break through a lot of that in the past couple of weeks just to do this interview because they conditioned me to believe they owned my throat and my vocal cords.
Another thing they did that was extremely painful, and I still have a lot of painful body memories is that they would put a thick belt around my waist and they would have the box on my back, and by remote control they would shock the lower spine. Believe me, that will put you on the floor real quick, crawling, and begging that they stop, and you do whatever they say. That's why I say electricity was one of the worst.
But drugs are also -- they had one particular drug, and it is connected with curare somehow -- it has kind of the same name -- I can't remember it right offhand. When they gave me that drug, I could still think pretty much, I could see, I could hear, but I could not move my body at all. They would induce such a sense of helplessness that again, it was absolutely terrifying knowing that if somebody did something to me, I could not even lift my hand to defend myself. That drug, especially, unfortunately worked pretty well on me too.
Wayne Morris:How was hypnosis used, to your awareness?
Kathleen Sullivan:I was extremely susceptible to hypnosis, because I already preferred to go in an alter state rather than face the reality going on around me. It was already very easy for me to -- going into another alter state sometimes for me was self-hypnosis. I didn't know what it was, I just did it. I was already so prone to that -- when somebody else did it, especially using Eriksonian techniques -- I have had confirmation from a therapist that it is probably the most powerful and effective form of hypnosis that an MK operative can use. I could sit there and if someone was talking to me, and if they knew certain codes that were used on me previously, they could be talking to me, and I could see the person's mouth move, and I knew the person was talking to me but I could not hear the person's words because the words were hitting another part of my personality that I was still amnesic to. That part of my personality would get orders and I would not even know what the orders were. The Eriksonian stuff is very powerful.
Wayne Morris:It just goes through to the subconscious ...
Kathleen Sullivan:Somebody will be talking to me in a very smooth tone, never raise their voice, put me in a hypnotic state to where I would see whatever they wanted to me to see at the moment.
Wayne Morris:Did you feel you were more prone to going into a hypnotic state because of your trauma conditioning?
Kathleen Sullivan:Absolutely. It is something I worked very hard on. I have done EEG biofeedback also which is pretty triggering if you have been hooked to those types of monitors before. It really did help me a lot to learn how to control my trancing-out. It has been wonderful that way.
Wayne Morris:How does that work in terms of helping you heal?
Kathleen Sullivan:The person that I worked with specializes in that now, and what she did was she would attach little clips, one to each of my earlobes. There was no electrical current. She would use some kind of glue to attach little tiny wires to different parts of my head -- over the back part of my skull is where most of my Delta brainwaves are centred. The top part of my skull is where the Beta brainwaves are -- which is another reason why they used those Greek letters because of the actual brainwaves they were able to activate in different parts of the brain.
Wayne Morris:They were utilizing those different parts of the brain with the different systems of programming ...
Kathleen Sullivan:Yes. I was really shocked when I found that out. Paul Devereaux, who I believe is connected to Stanford, wrote a book "Earthmind". A person I didn't know handed me that book at a conference once, and walked away. I went through that and it has some exellent explanations about how all this works. I am really surprised he wrote it. It's a really good book to find and read. Be aware it does have an awful lot of triggers in it too.
Wayne Morris:Maybe we could talk at this point about those different systems of programming you mentioned, the Alpha, Beta ... and what they signified, what they involved.
Kathleen Sullivan:Okay. When I wrote Daniel Ryder about this, he got my letter just as he had come back from a conference where I believe Corydon Hammond had presented this information -- so the information Daniel Ryder got in the letter from me was a verification of what Dr. Hammond had shared at the conference. That ended up being a validatiion for me when he told me Dr. Hammond had mentioned it at the conference. So it was really neat -- it verified two different ways. I have read an article by a man named Mark Phillips in a patriot newsletter from Florida called "Outpost to Freedom" -- most of what he wrote in there is pretty accurate about the different kinds of programming. I would rather say what I have personally experienced with it.
Alpha for me was what I call my most basic program, and Dad called it that too. That was the program and the brainwave activated that kind of started all the programming. It's where he would get to me first before he started activating any other parts.
Beta for me -- another word that they used a lot, a code name, was "Barbie". Let's just say one person who is a politician heavily involved in this stuff, had even told me that Klaus Barbie was the one who originated that name which later became Beta. What that involved was that all the personalities who were used for what I knew as "sexual servicing" of other individuals -- I was used both as a child and as an adult in those alter states, and I had more than one. In those alter states I would not resist, I had no anger, I was an absolute sexual slave and I would do whatever I was told to do. I also was not able to respond sexually, not to the same degree as I would normally, in a normal conscious state.
Delta, for me, had a lot of military connections. I was used pretty extensively in a Delta state with military personnel or under the orders of military personnel. In that state I was absolutely, completely loyal to whoever my "superior" was. They had a number of sub-codes that would activate different parts of that Delta system.
This is a trigger though, so if anyone is reading or listening and they have Delta programming, please be aware of this.
It was simply Delta 1,2,3. There were different ways they used numbers attached to that word. In that alter state, if they told me to kill somebody in the room, I would do that. I had absolute obedience to that person who was in charge. In that state, I did not think. I had a lot of amnesia to where I was dependent on that person, pretty much for my survival, and I knew it, and I was used to it.
Theta was more into the psychic -- and I don't really like the word "psychic" by the way. I think it is mis-used or gives the wrong connotation to a lot of this. It's where they use mental energy, energy from the brain, to do a number of things that some people would call psychic. Mark Phillips had mentioned that some Thetas were called psychic killers, but then he said the experiments didn't work. Yes they did. Somebody gave him some misinformation on that. They definitely did. A lot of times I ran across other victims with Theta programming -- but one of the movie and book themes they used extensively for me with Theta training was "Dune" by Herbert I believe. If you ever watch the movie or read the book, it won't be too hard to figure because what they taught us was that we could cause things to happen to other people. It was to build up rage inside -- it would come out in the form of pure energy because we would not allow the rage to be in the forefront, we would just use pure thought against another person.
Wayne Morris:So, you wouldn't have a physical manifestation of the rage, it would be a mental "attack" ...
Kathleen Sullivan:It would be an energy that would hit them, yes. They had talked about people imploding internally in their digestive organs and stuff. I don't know because I can't see what goes on inside another body and I do know that it does work, because one time after I started remembering this stuff I went to a grocery store and a woman whom I recognized and felt threatened by -- I did it, and before I realized what I was doing -- she ended up on the floor, in a coma. This is really gross. I had a serious emotional meltdown and went and prayed for her in the bathroom, and I felt so horrible. Eventually I realized that if this is something in me, I have got to learn to take responsibility and control of it, mostly by getting my rage out, and doing a lot of anger work. I don't do that anymore.
There are some rather good things they did with this Theta stuff too. Some people are involved in remote viewing, and I don't know if it worked because they didn't tell me the results. There were times I seemed to be able to see people in other locations and what they were doing, what the furniture looked like and such. For me a lot of times, even consciously, this stuff would happen if a friend was involved in a hazardous situation or something and I was notified. I could actually see where the person was and what was happening, and I would use it to pray for the person. I also was, as far as I know, and I don't really like to get into this one now, but I was also used to do hands-on healing. It was quite an experience when there is an energy transfer from one body into another, when you can feel that flow.
There is a cult, I call it a cult anyway, The Church of the Living Word, that I was a member of back in the mid 70's where they practiced this a lot. A whole lot. It was a charismatic type cult. I was also in a lot of Pentecostal type churches where they seemed to do a lot of this stuff. It kind of kept it going in me, kept it active and I learned a lot from it. My problem with the Theta stuff is simply that it is very abusive of other people's boundaries.
[Next episode]
Wayne Morris:Good morning. You have tuned into The International Connection once again. We are coming into the home stretch for the mind control in Canada and the U.S. radio series. This will be continuing until the end of December, 1997 and today we are airing Part 2 of an interview with Kathleen Sullivan, a survivor of U.S. government mind control. Kathleen is alleging that the CIA, NASA and the Mafia used her in assassination operations, espionage, criminal acts and for bodyguarding services. Kathleen also alleges that George Bush and Henry Kissinger were two among others that used and abused her. In this interview we talk about the code names of operations and mind control projects, and what they were about. And now, Kathleen Sullivan.
Kathleen Sullivan:If someone asked me to lay hands on them for healing, I would consider doing it. But I would let them know I needed to know they were comfortable with it, that they really wanted it. I don't like doing it much anymore because it just kind of spooks me too much.
Wayne Morris:There has been a fair amount of information coming out about the Soviets' research into these kinds of areas, along with the United States, at Stanford University, in terms of remote viewing. Do you remember how it felt, in terms of using this kind of technology? Did it feel like you were having an out-of-body experience?
Kathleen Sullivan:Absolutely. It is really rather fascinating. One of the things I have been finding out (in little bits and pieces I heard from those people) is that one reason survivors of child abuse and/or survivors who had generational abilities to do this kind of stuff ... I had a Swedish grandmother who was a healer in that area. She did what she called "pain drawing". I haven't got any confirmation that it was called by the Swedes, but that's what she told me it was when I was a little girl. I would be tortured and then she would come to me and put her hands on me, and literally draw the pain energy into her own body. It was the darndest thing. She actually taught me how to do that.
Wayne Morris:It seems very unfortunate, that with a lot of this kind of mind control, using the mental energies and the energies within ourselves, within our minds and brains, that it can be used for such positive things, but it has been used a lot in very destructive ways ...
Kathleen Sullivan:It's like anything else. It can be used for good or bad. I always think about the atomic bomb when I think about that. Splitting the atom can be used wonderfully, but these people used it to kill others. The thing I am running across right now, talking to other survivors about, the Theta stuff, is that a lot of people have not been comfortable talking about it because the public is being told it didn't work, such experiments were shut down because they didn't work, etc. and yet they really did. What I am figuring is that certain elements of our government, and the Canadian government for sure, want to keep it to themselves basically.
Wayne Morris:As a secret weapon ...
Kathleen Sullivan:What I was taught and I will say this much ...James Jesus Angleton, who was the Director of Operations for the CIA when I was a little girl ... he was one of the people who taught me a lot about this stuff. One of the things he taught me is that anyone can do this. Although people who have a generational tendency and raised up to believe that yes, this can happen, so they don't have mental blocks ... they are more able to do it quickly and purely, which is very important as well. If you have a lot of doubts about it, and are confused and worried, it doesn't work too well. I read an article by a well-known psychic who also said he doesn't like the word "psychic" ... he said the same thing, and I thought it was great, he said, "anyone can do this." I think it would be wonderful if more people could learn to use it for good, or healing and not take advantage of it. But it's like anything else, if there are people who learn about it, there is also going to be an element of our society who will try and use it for nefarious purposes
Wayne Morris:The word "psychic" somehow connotates something that is outside of our bodies, something foreign to the human experience where it is very much part of it. As you say, not a lot of people know how to use their own mental energies.
Kathleen Sullivan:I spent a lot of time in churches because they used a lot of scriptural programming on me to keep me in line through guilt and all that. One of the things a lot of churches ... that the pastors will teach from pulpits ... is that what was done during the New Testament era by the so-called disciples is not available to people now because we're in a different dispensation (that's the word they would use). I can see where people are discouraged from exploring this part of their brain, because they are taught that we can't ... but we can. It's very human. It's not frightening. I think it will be more comfortable when more people are aware of this stuff. But for a lot people, it is frightening right now. It's not something that is talked about very much except by people who really promote it for money and stuff.
Wayne Morris:You mentioned James Jesus Angleton was the Director for Counter Intelligence for the CIA. How did you become involved in this, talking with him about it?
Kathleen Sullivan:My dad and him seemed to be awfuly close, and in some ways I don't really like to talk about it. He treated me very oddly. He talked to me like I was an adult. He didn't seem to like children at all. All I can figure, and I am always analyzing these people because it helps me to understand their motives better ... his middle name was Jesus, and he used Jesus in the New Testament as the model for this. One of the things he kept telling me is where Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures, said that what "He" did, we can do more of. He took that literally, he took that scientifically. Where Jesus Christ said that if you say to a mountain "be cast into the sea" it will be cast into the sea, if you have enough faith. And what he was teaching me was that if I have enough faith in my brain ... so in a way, I am glad that he taught me some of those things. I don't like what some of it was used for, but he took it very seriously and I understand why. Even as far as the remote viewing ... oh man ... the things you can do with that in spycraft is outstanding. It's like being able to be in a room with somebody and being able to pick up on their thoughts. Or know when somebody has a physical illness without them knowing yet. It's amazing what they can do with this stuff.
Wayne Morris:How would people go about learning more about this, or how they can develop?
Kathleen Sullivan:I really don't know unless you want to be an MK victim ...
Wayne Morris:No thanks ...
Kathleen Sullivan:I don't know people yet who do this, and are comfortable with it. I will eventually. It's pretty new information yet, but I think the more people talk about it ... I have talked to a number of people who have shared things with me in private that they have had things like this happen to them in their lives and they have been so afraid to tell anybody, because they thought they would be considered demonically possessed ... I have especially run into that one by people who are Christians. I think that the more people learn that it is not evil, it is not supernatural ... it is a human thing. There are a lot more people who are already doing this than we realize. A lot more.
Wayne Morris:There was another system you mentioned, OMICRON. Did you want to talk about that?
Kathleen Sullivan:That was a system especially created for the Mafia. I did receive verification from the Corydon Hammond information, which was fascinating to me, getting validation -- it also scared the pants off me. "Omigod, not the Mob ..." I had memories of Mob figures that my Dad knew ever since I was a very little girl, being introduced to a lot of them. One investigator that I talked to, when I described how these people looked and the places that my Dad met them, said, "Oh that would have been the Columbo crime family." That was up in the Pennsylvania area and New York City. I am assuming he had no reason to lie to me about that. I also spent time at a place called Mar-A-Largo, that was the code name. Ted Gunderson advised me that the full name for that resort in the Florida Keys is actually Marina del Largo. What is weird about that is Donald Trump's getaway place in Florida is Marina del Lago, whatever. The Trafficante family owned that facility (I don't know if they still do) and I have numerous memories of going down there. What I ran into a lot was that the Mob would do a lot of stateside illegal activity and are involved in so many different kinds of underground, illegal businesses.
They had their own system in me, so that when they wanted to use me, it was OMICRON. It was pretty simple. I have seen some other children of Mob figures on TV and stuff, and I have very easily identified them as being under mind control. I think what it boils down to is that the Mafia does not want people it is using to courier drugs, hits, whatever, to remember who they did it for. It is very much to their benefit, as it was for these other agencies, that MK victims would not remember and be able to testify some day.
Wayne Morris:It seems like, from the testimony of survivors of mind control, that they have been used for a lot of different types of criminal activity. Can you tell me what else you remember of how you were used by the Mafia?
Kathleen Sullivan:I am saying there are a lot of cross-overs here between the CIA, the Mafia, and several other federal and intelligence agencies, including the Pentagon. A lot of times they do things together. I can do this. I made a list a while back of different things I had been used for, and again, there are a lot of cross-overs. Back during WWII the OSS and the military recruited a lot of Mob figures, especially out of Italy, to do actual spying for them on the government they were trying to get more information on. I assume that some of the personal friendships between some of the operatives and Mob figures, probably continued and I can't help but wonder if that is possibly why Mob stuff is connected, and is still being covered up.
Here's the list of some things I was used for. Smuggling. Believe it or not, I was used to help smuggle missiles. Krugerands, which I learned are often used because they cannot be traceable, or at least could not, because they didn't have any code numbers, ID; diamonds; drugs; unfortunately they used me to transport children to pedophiles and such a lot. I was used to do bodyguarding for politicians and other dignitaries, also children of politicians in situations where again, they would prefer to use MK victims because these politicians and dignitaries were involved in illegal activities. They would rather have bodyguards who would not be able to testify. I was used in many different kinds of assassinations. Too many. I couriered mental messages between heads of state including one President quite a bit. They expected I would not remember, and especially that in situations whenever I did remember, suicide programming would kick in. I helped my Dad program children. I have trained children how to fight, so I guess that was for future ops they were going to be used in. I was used in hostage interventions, especially where there was kidnapping and they didn't want it to hit the news. They would send in a team or sometimes I did it on my own because I didn't look like an operative. I didn't look like anybody threatening, so usually could get into a building or whatever, a lot easier than a man who was armed or such.
I was used in disposing of bodies of people who were killed on ops. That's gross. I participated in some of those acted-out scenarios for the development of screen memories, so I was on both ends of that. I participated in quite a few porn movies, all kinds. The worst. And believe me, those are extremely lucrative, as well as the selling of children is extremely lucrative. They had me do what they call "pillow talk" which was having sex with dignitaries and other people they wanted to get information on. I was actually kind of good at that. I am not proud of it, but I was good at it. Back home I participated in the cult rituals which probably were filmed a lot of times to be used later on, and actually some people are real into those kind of films, and they can be very money-making. Sometimes they used me to torture and interrogate people. As a child and adult both, they would have me sexually service people.
This is another area I want to touch on because a lot of survivors are feeling uncomfortable talking about this. As an adult they had parts of me that were programmed specifically to have sex with females, particularly female politicians, and wives of politicians. Some say the truth will be known about some of these females in DC, but right now, obviously not. Another odd thing that one President had me do was to pretend to be channelling a message from a dead person where he was trying to get a certain person at that party to believe that her husband as giving her instructions. There are so many different ways that one person can be used, especially when they had cross-training in many different areas. They called people like me multi-faceted which meant that even though I had one original personality, they split off in different parts of my personality to extremes ... to where one part may lay down and be absolutely non-resistant when I was being raped, and another part would kill if somebody tried to do it, but the parts were amnesic to one another. If they were controlled properly, they never came up at the same time
Wayne Morris:Who would you be doing these operations for?
Kathleen Sullivan:Glad you asked. There were a number of groups that I did a lot of this stuff for. There is one group I have recently been getting verifications on, I knew them as The "Octopus". They actually did OCTOPUS programming on me, creating a part of me that really thought it was an octopus, and they did that by putting me in aquariums with octopii and putting a lid on so I nearly drowned. Actually I did kind of drown and they resuscitated me. They had really cute ways of doing some of this stuff. I have remembered that Oliver North was involved and I don't mind saying that because that's information that is already pretty much out there.
Wayne Morris:Involved with what in particular?
Kathleen Sullivan:Iran Contra.
Wayne Morris:So there were mind control elements to this?
Kathleen Sullivan:Yes. They had me go down to some countries in South America and several islands, and discuss things with leaders, bring them messages and such. I found out that the name of the group who was running this stuff was actually OCTOPUS, and I almost had a heart attack when I found out it was real.
I was used extensively for the CIA. I was used also by the Pentagon,and some times there would be Ranger or Delta teams ... not Delta programming ... military personnel. I would go in with them because of certain training I had, and being who I was, and looking like I did, I could get into situations sometimes better than they could. They would sometimes back me up. I did some hits for the Mob, I am not at all proud of any of this, some in Chicago for one of the families. I also did some stuff for a group that I knew as The Organization. I have received some confirmation that it is probably NSA (National Security Agency) which would fit because when I started getting out, they were having me report to a building where they had some offices where my memories were being pretty much shut down. But CIA seemed to be the main one as far as I can remember.
What they did also ... it's really bizarre. They started working my schedule where I wasn't busy working on one of these ops, they would have me do bodyguarding for politicians, which was a big favour for them, it makes them feel beholden to somebody for my doing that garbage for them. Bringing them drugs, children, stuff like that.
Wayne Morris:Did you get the sense you were being used more operationally, or did they involve you in any kind of experimentation as well?
Kathleen Sullivan:There were some names that they used which I assumed were operations, or projects. Back when I was a teenager, they had a really odd code name they used for some girls ... I believe we were trained at Fort McLellan in Alabama. They called us GOLDEN GIRLS and BLUEBIRD models. They introduced us to an audience full of people that were connected to us, including relatives. It was like a big deal. It was like people were really proud that we were going to be used. This was before we actually became operatives. I know several women who, even when they were children, were being used to do "Kills". I personally don't have memory of that. If it happens, it happens. My daughter was used to courier drugs when she was a little girl. For me, that was kind of the introduction as far as code names went.
One that I heard a number of times was Operation GOLDILOCKS, and I don't know if they were referring to how I was being used, or if they were just using that word around me. I am just going to name some code words I heard. Something called Operation C-BASE or SEA-BASE; Operation MASSACRE; Operation C-STONE or SANDSTONE; LOYAL INDIA; INDIAN INK. I have tried to look up some of these words in a book I have called "CIA DATABASE". I believe it was by Ralph McGehee. I found two or three of these words in it, so I don't know if these are operational names, or more specific code names that were being used at that time, kind of like cover names. There was a code name, DARK PURPLE or DEEP PURPLE, a code name that had to do with literal re-programming of MK victims, actual facilities and such. There was LARKSPUR. There was a kind of programming they did that used torture -- extreme heat and extreme cold. Unfortunately I see a lot in commercials now called FIRE & ICE. There was DELTA BLUE. A project DEEP BLUE which seemed to be extremely important but I don't have enough memory on that. There was, I did get get verification on this one, GOLD STAR OPERATIONAL SYSTEMS ... George Bush's baby absolutely, he was so proud of it, and it is directly connected to NASA and DARPA. CHRONIC HEADACHE, MARIGOLD. This is another code name I kept running across, and it has something to do with Intelligence Computer Systems Analysis, and they would actually have me see it in my sleep, just about. It was a big "Z" and then the letters BOM. I am real curious about what that was. Another one that was recurring, I heard this a number of times PROJECT NINE. I wish it was that simple, because then it would be easy to find out what it was.
There was a SAC (Strategic Air Force Command) location in the U.S. that had silos, and they code named that place GREENACRES. NSA's computer systems, code name for that was simply THE BRAIN. It was the best computer system of all time in the U.S., probably still us. Another project or operation name in my earlier out years and I am 42 by the way, was TOP HAT. They also had MESSIAH, OVERLORD. They had a code name simply called THE LINK which had to do with some type of computer communications between NSA and NASA. They talked about a code name called THE CENTIPEDE which had to with information compartmentalization between different departments in the CIA. They would say "One Hand Doesn't Know What The Other Hand Is Doing" -- that way they kept people from knowing too much about what was going on. This one I ran across in my journalling, and it really surprised me. >From my journal: "This is the name of CIA programming that had to do with totally visualized, totally fantasy, internal mental world created in MK victims. The code name for this was HEAVEN'S GATE."
George Bush, during the Reagan administration, had mentioned OPERATION SANDSTORM a number of times and also a code name MOONGOOSE to do with that, and it had to do with Khadaffi. There was a computer system that I knew as "BRANDON" that was connected to NASA. One code name that was mentioned to me a number of times was CLEAN SWEEP. I did get some verification on that in the library, where they were trying to shut down a lot of the Aryan connections to all this because a lot of these federal agencies realized that if they didn't do something, we were going to end up with a Nazi run country (gap here) but at the same time would ask for, or open, investigations into the Nazi influence in our government. I think this very seriously needs to be done because one of the things my father and others had talked about was that when the Nazi criminals were brought here from Germany through Operation Paperclip and all, they were very angry people.
MENSA was an interesting code name they used and it is not directly connected to the organization. These people know a lot of Reader's Digest by the way, which I was told to read, and still do. MENSA was the code name used for victims who had genius IQ's. One of the things that I and some others were used to do was to participate in DC think tanks for several politicians, including George Bush. They weren't real creative sometimes with their speeches or ideas, so we would ... because we were around people at home and kind of knew what was going on politically in a lot of people's minds ... they would have us come up with ideas to use in speeches. Project ARMAGEDDON is one that I was exposed to a lot. I don't know if this has been made public or not ... I don't want to hack anyone off ... but it has to do with the Pentagon and has to do with global war, or WW III. They did a lot of war games, and even in rooms where they would practice whatever they do ... I don't know, military men. Also I had inside THE KEYS OF SOLOMON which was coded information that I carried for this Armageddon, for these officers. I don't know if that was just stored information for the future, or just one for when they were strategically planning.
Two more Aryan type code names that I heard a number of times were PAX ROMANA ... used in connection to the words "The Plan", that is connected to S.H.A.R.E. International. This is fascinating to me, and I am going to throw a name out here, Henry Kissinger who is a Luciferian, he is a staunch member of Lucis Trust. He was one of the people that used those words a lot. There is a group that is strongly Mob connected called "Satanic Hierarchy" and it was based in New York City, although one of the leaders who flew over to New York City a lot from Britain was Robert Maxwell. He supposedly suicided a number of years ago in the ocean off his boat. I seriously question that it was a suicide. My Dad was also a member of Satanic Hierarchy at Mount Hood. I do not know what state that was in, but it was where they did traumatic baseline also known as near-death torture and conditioning. Really awful stuff.
Another kind of name that the CIA used was OPS Relief Corps. This is where specialized Black OPS teams were sent out to other countries usually, by the CIA, when their in-place operatives were in serious trouble and needed back-up or straightening out or whatever. Now there is a company or organization that I have yet to find any verification on. The initials for this company were AOR (or in Italy, it was AORI). The people who were clients of this company were not told that it actually stands for "Austrian Order of the Reich" - an absolute Nazi organization. It was run by a man I knew as Paul Devereux. He had two other aliases, known as Paul Dubois and Paul Dupeche. One of their facilities was in France, close to a shoreline, but I don't know where exactly. He told me, and whether this is true or not I don't know, but the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers and the Ford Foundation were helping to fund this business.
What they were doing there was bringing government leaders from different countries and people in high positions in these countries, to their facilities where they taught to increase the Theta brainwaves basically. To do the same things that were already being taught in the Pentagon, in the CIA, and several other stateside organizations. In time they were trying to recruit World leaders to be part of a New World Government, under their jurisdiction, which I assume is Nazi oriented.
One thing I ran across a lot was called SHELL Programming. This was one of my Dad's very twisted specialties. At a warehouse either at or near Georgia Tech University in Atlanta ... children were sent from different parts of the country for Dad to program. He would actually split these kids' personalities. He would have the kids get into these huge (I supposed they were papier mache) white, upright shells, and then Dad or one of his assistants would pour large quantities of certain types of special ordered bugs into the shells. You can imagine what that will do to a child's mind ... He had a few problems where kids went into catatonic states. To him that was a problem, to me the entire thing was. There was another operation I ran across at least once, Operation BLOWFISH. I understand that it is possible that one or two of these names I picked up from some book I read, but the majority of them I absolutely did not because they were recurring in my memories.
They called me "Plain Jane" a lot when they would have me do bodyguarding for politicians. I did work side by side with secret service operatives (I call them operatives sometimes). I think again, they used me in these situations because I was not an employee, I was not easily identifiable that way. They especially would use us to work crowds because of the Theta conditioning and abilities that they had honed in us. A lot of secret service people have these abilities as well. They can actually pick up on hostile thoughts of a person in a crowd, like where the President is, and they can actually approach that person and disable them and take them out physically before they can even do anything. It is just wonderful how this works. Usually they would have me dressed in a plain brown jacket and skirt at that time.
Another name they used extensively with me was "Naomi", which I later learned was MK-NAOMI. It was where I was used to do biochemical assassinations, and it is pretty heartbreaking stuff from what I remembered. There was one cult of young people where I had to put some kind of substance in lemonade in their refrigerator. I believe this was in another country, and I am assuming they did not live. Sometimes they would have me put a straight pin or needle sticking out of a corner at the bottom of my purse, and have it laced with a substance they had in a small jar of Vaseline which I have stopped using completely, but it took a while. I was conditioned to use Vaseline and I would not use lipstick, I would use vaseline on my lips. What they would do is have me dip that pin in the substance in the Vaseline, and then walk by the targeted individual, and then simply scratch them through their clothes. I saw in a movie a couple of years later where somebody did this ... it was supposed to be about covert operations. I came very close to fainting when I saw this because it was close to real.
They had another code name they used for people like me. What my family basically did with me (I don't like to use the word "basically" ... that's a George Bush code) was that they pretty much gave me to the White House and then I was exposed to other things there as a child. I knew the White House as 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I have run across other MK ex-operatives who also knew it as that. A lot of times they would call D.C. "The Hub" or they would call it "Emerald City", and the President would be known to me as "Oz" or "God". One of the things they conditioned in me was to see myself as a homing pigeon and no matter where I go, I will go back to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue which I was made to believe was my home. I had extreme loyalty, and unfortunately still do, to the residents there now. Need I say more?
CHAMELEON is a code name they used for MK operatives who were taught partly through dissociative lifelong adaptation. That's just a thing you learn. Whatever situation you are in, if you have an amnesic barrier, and you come to and you are in a strange situation, you learn real quick to adapt so that you don't get hurt. I already had some of that conditioning but they specialized even more, and they taught me how to dress and walk and talk and act like anyone who was around me. That made it harder for others to notice me, or identify me later on as sticking out and being caught in the crowd, or whatever.
Wayne Morris:What you have gone through is incredibly sophisticated uses of this.
Kathleen Sullivan:I have to say, and I have talked to other survivors about this, and they absolutely agree, these people are incredibly intelligent. I know some of them will like hearing that, and it's true. I wish they would use their intelligence for healing instead of hurting.
Another code word they used for me, and I can't remember if it was Brice Taylor or Cathy O'Brien who also was called this, was FAILSAFE. What that was supposed to mean, although it didn't work real well, was that the programming they put in us, and therefore the memories we had of certain individuals, could never, ever come out or be accessed. Obviously it didn't work.
I am going to touch on one little thing that I have gotten some verification on, but may get me in the most trouble, and I don't want to keep any secrets in this interview, because that will make it even more hazardous for me later on. For at least a decade, the CIA and KGB had been working together on a lot of operations. Most of the cross-training for this took place in Minsk, in Russia. If I hear a person talking Russian, I automatically space out. I am supposed to have a part that speaks in Russian although I am not about to let that happen. It would terrify me. One of the code names they used ... or handed me a candy bar ... was DARK CHOCOLATE ... dark chocolate is a way of blocking memory (does it to us chemically, something in this type of chocolate). Some of the code names they used for alter states there were "Sasha", "Mink", "Ermine", "Sable", and "Luna" or "LaLuna". They had some simple number codes that they also used ...positive (+) 3, 2 and 1 had to do with CIA activities, then O would mean ... I can see this on an envelope sent to me, and I would know what it meant by code without even having to think ... it would automatically kick in something in my head. O meant that I was at home, regular job, regular activities, in other words I was not active. Negative (-) 1, 2 and 3 had to do with KGB activity. They work behind each other's backs a lot too ... it's just one of those deals ... they were stabbing each other's backs while they were working with each other as well. Oh gosh. That's the main one.
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